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[Mike Wood]

Very nice Phil!

Mike

[Phil Lewis]

Here is the National and Centralised League results up to and including the BMFA National Championships at Buckminster, please let me know if you spot any errors.
 
Please note competitions yet to be flown simply contain dummy data so simply ignore those.
 
Phil

[Phil Lewis]

Here is the National and Centralised League results up to and including the second Knettishall Competition of this year, please let me know if you spot any errors.

Phil

[Kevin Caton]

Thanks Phil

Can the committee please clarify that the BMFA Sid Allen Trophy will be awarded counting only those competitions which are open to all BMFA members - namely the three Centralised, the World Cup and the National Championships. Competitions requiring UKF3A membership are not valid for calculating the ranking for a BMFA trophy. 

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Kevin

Below I have reproduced an extract from the SGM where we introduced the P&F class in National League but to count towards the Combined League.  You may remember that you raised the issue that if that were the case then we should ensure that the winner of the Sid Allen Trophy had flown in a minimum of 2 Centralised Competitions.  The minutes have the following text in them and reflected the discussion at the SGM regarding how to determine the Combined League Winner:

• Current rules counted the results of the P&F schedules flown in Centralised, the BMFA Nationals Competitions and the UK World Cup to count in establishing a league winner to receive the Sid Allen Trophy at the BMFA AGM Dinner. This is called the Centralised and Combined League and is based on the best 5 competition results. It was proposed to add the results of the National League P&F competitions, scored on a normalised basis, to this League in the same way as the UK World Cup had been added in 2011.

• In order to prevent the situation where a competitor had not flown in any Centralised Competition, the requirement would be that to be in the running for the Sid Allen Trophy, the winner must have flown in 2 out of the 3 Centralised competitions and have these results counted as part of the determination of the winner.

I would also suggest that the UK World Cup is not open to all BMFA members as they require an FAI Sporting Licence to do so unlike the case for the Centralised and Nats competitions.

Can you point me at the BMFA rules that state what you have set out above please?

Thanks

Peter

[Kevin Caton]

Hi Peter

I'm afraid this is a "recollections may vary" moment. I recall the first bullet point except the last sentence and the second bullet I don't recall.

My understanding was there was to be a national league for P&F in addition to the existing national leagues for the other classes. This was to be separate from the BMFA centralised league. The previous league tables published in the posts before and including No.16 clearly show the BMFA centralised league table separately and any reasonable person could assume that this was still in place.

The allocation of BMFA trophies doesn't appear in any BMFA rules but we need to recognise that the BMFA will not accept any circumstances where any member is put at a disadvantage against somebody who is also a member of a specialist body. Put simply, UKF3A can't add on a few of its own competitions to make the number of counting competitions greater.

A better thing to do was to keep having five centralised competitions, a situation which existed last season.

It's unfortunate that again there are unintended consequences from rule changes made as a consequence of the February SGM.

[Andy Ellison]

Thanks Phil

Can the committee please clarify that the BMFA Sid Allen Trophy will be awarded counting only those competitions which are open to all BMFA members - namely the three Centralised, the World Cup and the National Championships. Competitions requiring UKF3A membership are not valid for calculating the ranking for a BMFA trophy.

From this very website:

Society of Model Aeronautical Engineers – The Sid Allen Memorial Trophy
Presented by the BMFA to the winner of the F3A GBR Team Selection competitions each year, taking raw scores from all qualifying competitions. Reallocated AGM 2021.
Presented at the BMFA presentation event to the Pilot with the most points from All  BMFA Centralised (Open) competitions plus the BMFA National Championships and the UK World Cup competition.

[Peter Jenkins]

OK.  Thank you Andy for posting the BMFA Rules.   Clearly, UKF3A rules are subservient and we have to follow the BMFA rules.

[brandon ransley]

Peter

Ref your post at #19 where did your two bullet points come from? 

Are they published anywhere or, being polite, have you just drafted them?

Brandon 

[Peter Jenkins]

Hello Brandon

Being polite do you ever read stuff posted on the Forum?  If you did, you would have seen post #5 on the SGM thread on 6 Feb '26.  If you'd care to take a look at the minutes which I have put into Post #1 as an attachment, you will see the 2 bullet points.  The list of attendees does not include you I see.

What I was unaware of at the time was that as this is a BMFA Trophy it requires the BMFA to sign off on any change regarding the qualification for the trophy.  Andy has posted the relevant words so the Sid Allen Trophy will have to be awarded as per the current description.

Peter

[Andy Ellison]

Just a note for readers regarding the FAI licence comment. 
The ability to hold an FAI licence (in exchange for the appropriate fee) is available to all BMFA members and is therefore not a restriction but an entry requirement (for the world cup event). Similar in fact to the requirement to hold a BMFA fixed wing A certificate to enter a UK based F3A comp. 
Open to all if they want to try for it, not a restriction.

Andy

[brandon ransley]

Thanks Andy. 

At least someone is speaking with common sense. 

Brandon 

PS. The SGM seems to have been a bit of a SS. Not sure why it was needed when resolutions were passed at the AGM. 

[Peter Jenkins]

I'll try and explain Brandon.  The AGM removed the old Intermediate schedule and that caused disquiet amongst those who were flying and aiming to fly it.  So, as 10% of the membership wrote to the Committee to request a Special General Meeting to get the AGM decision changed, we had to call a SGM.  I have extracted the relevant bye law from the Constitution that deals with this:

4.       A special general meeting may be convened at any time by the Committee and shall be convened within 28 days from the receipt of a request in writing signed by not less than 10% of the members specifying the object of the notice for convening a special general meeting, and the notice shall be sent to the members not less than 14 days before the agreed date of the meeting.

There was also the issue of pressure from members who wished to fly more F schedules and some proposed that this could be acheived by holding more Centralised Competitions.  The alternative of having the P&F class in National League competitions wasn't covered so we took the opportunity of the SGM to introduce the P&F Class into the National League.   That seems to have worked well.  

I emailed out to all members the fact that an SGM had to be called and then the actual proposals that were being dealt with.  It seems like you have only just noticed that there was an SGM which is disappointing given that the norm would have been to just post on the Forum.  Many members don't visit the Forum very often and have told me they appreciate the emails I send out with a link to the relevant thread on the Forum.

I hope that answers your questions and comments on this matter.

[brandon ransley]

Peter

I'm intrigued by your comments about more F schedules.  

Who were those people?

And the resolution seems to have backfired as we already had the position that we could have F only competitions where we would fly three F schedules.  

Now you have changed this to 2P and 1F in National League competitions.  

So despite your stated aim of increasing the number of F schedules being flown you have actually achieved the opposite.  Fewer F schedules are being flown.  

Brandon 

[Peter Jenkins]

Hi Peter

I'm afraid this is a "recollections may vary" moment. I recall the first bullet point except the last sentence and the second bullet I don't recall.

My understanding was there was to be a national league for P&F in addition to the existing national leagues for the other classes. This was to be separate from the BMFA centralised league. The previous league tables published in the posts before and including No.16 clearly show the BMFA centralised league table separately and any reasonable person could assume that this was still in place.

The allocation of BMFA trophies doesn't appear in any BMFA rules but we need to recognise that the BMFA will not accept any circumstances where any member is put at a disadvantage against somebody who is also a member of a specialist body. Put simply, UKF3A can't add on a few of its own competitions to make the number of counting competitions greater.

A better thing to do was to keep having five centralised competitions, a situation which existed last season.

It's unfortunate that again there are unintended consequences from rule changes made as a consequence of the February SGM.

Hello Kevin

It is indeed unfortunate that these issues were not raised at the time.  I posted the minutes on 6th Feb 2026 posting that I had done so.  This is the first time that I have had a response to that.  

So, the current situation is that the Sid Allen Trophy will be decided on the same basis as last year i.e. results from the 3 Centralised, the Nationals and the UK World Cup.  The decision at the SGM to include the National League P&F results has not standing since this wasn't agreed by the BMFA.

That would leave the P&F class flown in the National League to naturally generate its own league since there is nowhere else for those results to go.  

All of this stems from the fact that much of this is not written down where it can easily be found by those who have just taken over Committee positions.  I am trying to rectify that by setting down what are the "rules" so that others can then see clearly where to find them and have confidence that they are current.