The entry for the 2024 nationals is now live.
10/11 August at BMFA Buckminster
Please use the entry form via our website for a two day entry fee.
Comp is open to all classes with the p&f guys competing to be national champion. ( no f only at this event)
I look forward to seeing many of you there.
Clubman
Intermediate
Steve Smithey
Masters
Graham Gooch
Mathew Smailes
FAI P-25 Only
Ken Moss
Adrian Harrison
Brian Hoare (Sunday only)
Mark Allen
Mike pole
Philip Lewis
Eugene Anker
FAI P-25 & F-25
Kevin Caton
Peter Madden
James Fallowfield
Dan Workman
Garry Peacock
Brandon Ransley
Javad Aghababazadeh
For the last two days the P&F competition has also shown Unknowns as well. This was incorrect and I have now corrected it - the competition is for P-25 and F-25 schedules only. Sorry for the mistake.
There has been interest from a number of this years Nationals entrants (some who haven't even entered as yet) that they would prefer a Pub meal on the Saturday evening rather than the Buckminster BBQ which has to have a minimum of 20 participants.
It's been suggested that the White Lion PH at Colsterworth (5 miles from Buckminster) be used.
If you would like to attend, please would you register your interest on this thread so that tables can be booked in advance.
Those who wish to attend the Saturday evening meal at the White Lion PH
Graham & Beryl
Phil Lewis
Kevin Caton +1
Mike Pole +1
Garry Peacock
Eugene Anker
Peter & Yazz Madden
Jim Fallowfield
Yes, I would definitely prefer a proper sit down meal as opposed to a BBQ anytime.
Two for the pub meal please.
Two for the pub meal please
booked in, and if everybody else is in the pub I am in for the meal please Graham
One for the meal please Graham
Due to the numbers for the White Lion pub meal on Saturday evening (sit down at 7.30pm), the Pub has now requested pre-orders for our starters and main course (deserts no issues)
Please would you follow this link, have a look at the various menu options and let me know your choices by Friday 2nd August.
The White Lion Colsterworth Menu (https://whitelioncolsterworth.co.uk/menu)
Quote from: Graham Gooch on 30, July 2024, 08:10:41 PMDue to the numbers for the White Lion pub meal on Saturday evening (sit down at 7.30pm), the Pub has now requested pre-orders for our starters and main course (deserts no issues)
Please would you follow this link, have a look at the various menu options and let me know your choices by Friday 2nd August.
The White Lion Colsterworth Menu (https://whitelioncolsterworth.co.uk/menu)
Haddock please.
Please don't forget to bring a model suitable for the almost now customary "Night Flying" event on the Saturday evening once we return from the White Lion.
If you don't have anything suitable, then please consider obtaining some stick on LED's, most of which will run off the motor/ESC power supply.
Great enjoyment.......
If anyone else is considering the Nationals the cut off point for entries is 5 pm on Thursday.
After which time Phil will be organising the nautomatic system with flying orders etc.
Garry
Hi Garry
I am still considering. I've not flown a schedule since getting back from Belgium. Deadline noted.
Hope to get out tomorrow.
Brandon
No problem mate 👍
Please note that the Buckminster Cafe will be open on Saturday, so if anyone fancies a Full English before flying, contact the National Centre by Friday to place your order.
Bacon sandwiches etc will be available to order on the day.
Can I ask what the Nats format will be. I think our Nats rules might still be tailored for a 3 day comp?
Re the P & F competition - Will it be 3 Ps on Saturday & 1 P & 2 F's on Sunday.
And then - best 3 P's normalised to 1000 + Best normalised F on Sunday to count?
ps -am judging on Sunday - so wondered what I need to do.
From the 2024 rules which is what I will follow unless someone tells me differently:
The competition to decide the National Champion in each class shall use Preliminary and Finals flights. The format and rounds to count shall be as follows:
• 6 Rounds – 4 Preliminary Rounds; 2 Finals Rounds (best 3 from 4 Preliminaries, + best Finals)
• 5 Rounds – 4 Preliminary Rounds; 1 Final Round (best 3 from 4 Preliminaries, + Final)
• 4 Rounds – best 3 from 4 • 3 Rounds – best 2 from 3
• 2 Rounds – best 1 from 2
• 1 Round – the 1 round will count
If it's to be anything else I need to know and really quickly.
Phil
I'm not the CD. But thems the rules. On that basis the P are NOT renormalised - unless anyone interprets it differently
Hi Brandon. I think that's a typo. We have always normalised results where 2 schedules are involved - because there are 2 separate competitions. So don't know when or why that came in.
I'm sure the prelim P's were renormalised to 1000. Can someone enlighten us when or IF a decision was made to NOT normalise the P's in the P & F competition? If 'we' did - what was the logic?
I think it should say - 'best 3 from 4 Preliminaries, Normalised'
Kevin?
ps - also my original question was - Will there be 3 flights on Saturday & 3 on Sunday?
I've read through the rules for the last 5 years and the scoring system hasn't changed since 2019 and possibly longer (I don't have the rules from earlier than that in my files).
We have required any F schedules to be counted for this period of time as these are flown last and the intention was to discourage pilots from flying Saturday and Sunday, then missing Monday in the old 3 day Nats format.
Re-normalising the preliminary rounds is done in FAI competitions, so there is a case for changing to that system.
I've just looked back on the forum at past Nats results and we used the current scoring system in 2017.
I think when held a one day Nats (Covid times) we flew 2xP and 1xF, so the score would have been one round of P plus the F, so equal weighting for each schedule.
Hi Kevin. Something not right here. We have always normalised the Nats for P & F champion event. Indeed it can't work any other way where here are 2 separate schedules.
That happens at International events & it's the system we adopted for the Nats many years ago. The number of counting flights & emergency measures is another issue & separate to the principle.
If there were any other changes - it would have to be done at an AGM. As far as I am aware there were no such proposals. Any proposal would have been shouted down by the argument that we should follow FAI rules, and it never happened.
Sorry -what we are looking at is a typo - or whoever wrote the current rules simply made a mistake, or someone didn't understand the existing rules. It happens.
OR - at which AGM was the rule changed to mixing non-normalised & normalised scores. I don't think you will find it.
I think you might be getting confused here Stuart, so to be clear, (my understanding) is that for all classes all scores are normalised for each round (as they should be with different Judges and different weather as it is over two days).
The difference between the Nats and an international competition is that its is the best three normalised scores counting from the first four rounds (i.e. the best three scores totalled up NOT renormalised) plus the best normalised score from rounds five and six which in the case of P and F happen to be the two F schedules.
That is the way it has been ever since I have set up the scoring system which goes back a fair few years now.
If I'm wrong can someone please let me know.
Phil
My response yesterday wasn't clear enough about normalising the rounds:
Every round (in every class) is normalised to 1000 points. After four rounds you could have a maximum of 3000 points - if you win at least three rounds.
For the fifth and sixth rounds - the finals - the round scores are normalised again to 1000 points (whether the schedule is the same or, as in the case of FAI P&F, it changes to the F schedule) and the highest of these two scores is added to the preliminary score. This gives a maximum of 4000 points.
hi Kevin/Phil. Hi Kevin - this is where the confusion arises: It was my understanding that, yes, all scores are normalised for the P & F event - but, the best 3 of 4 Prelim scores were re normalised to 1000. Thus 1000 points (max) were carried forward to the finals day. Then - best of 2 F's to give a total F score of 1000.
Thus both competitions are then equal with 1000 points available for either schedule to give a total maximum of 2000 points.
If this has been changed to a 4000 point maximum in the past ( doubtful anyone will know when) - OK - but doesn't seem as satisfactory.
Whatever - the rules are still unclear - they do not mention that scores should be normalised! They need updating, I think.
ps -sorry Phil.
On Gary's behalf here are the flight orders for the Nationals this weekend in the order that the schedules will be flown.
Phil
Evening all, I've just been catching up as I've had a busy old day.
Pilots briefing seems unnecessary to me these days all information needed is as follows.
Fail safes must be working as its the individuals responsibility now for this.
Saturday morning arrivals before 8-45 please.
Thank you to Phil for setting up the nautomatic scoring system. The flying order is as he has posted eg. Masters, Intermediate, p only, p&f.
The results will be made up as per Phils post #16 above.
First flight at 9 am Saturday prompt please. We have a good entry now so I will have a ready box and will expect the next pilot to be ready for their flight.
Look forward to seeing you all on Saturday.
Garry
Just a reminder that the cafe is open on Saturday. May also open on Sunday if sufficient demand.
Has anyone left a samsung usb charger and usb c cable at Buckminster while at nats.
I have it, contact me.
Vince
Great competition this weekend, thank you Gary for CD ing, all the judges especially the pilot judges and a special thank you to Graham for helping with the scoring.
Anyway, here are the final scores.
Phil
P-25 and P & F-25 Final scores
Thanks Garry for CD'ing the Nats a most enjoyable comp and thanks for all the supporters that chipped in with help much appreciated by all. Special note to thank Phil for being on duty masterminding the Notaumatics throughout the two days and competing as well.
A
ps happy birthday Kevin the cake was great thanks
Ditto the above.
But just looking at the P & F group - 0.11 normalised point separating Garry & Brandon! Never seen a result so close.
I think that is the wrong result. It was something like 3996 v 3988
Yes of course - should be 4000 max not 5000 max (best3 of 4 & best F) - so probably just how the Notaumatics displays it? (since we don't use the SC normalising method?)
It's there somewhere Stuart
I know. I won't bother adding up the scores - I guess you've already done that. But 8 normalised points is still pretty close. Probably equivalent to 1 blink. (either pilot or judge)
Something that did concern me in the F was the vertical square 8. It was virtually impossible to see the top knife edge & roll in the conditions. All you could see was a couple of flashes from the model. My eyesight is pretty good (F.M.A) - but I did think of a N.O but I would have to have done that for everyone & with only 2 judges, not practical.
Stuart, you need to look at the xlsx spreadsheet, the Notaumatic scores are simply based on FAI method which is best five scores, it wasn't programmed as prelim and finals as it can't cope with the way we do the scores, for starters it would renormalise the prelim round to a 1000.
Here is a link to the gallery for images from this years Nationals.
DSC 0014 | UKF3A Photo Gallery (gbrcaa.org) (https://www.gbrcaa.org/gallery/picture.php?/13622/category/386)